Curse

freekedoutfish · Feb 28, 2007, 03:12 PM // 15:12

(I realise we dont know the exacts about hardmode, but the speculation is that it will only meant be accessible after protector)

Im not completely against this hardmode idea, I just dont see the need for it. It seems another way for Anet to pander to the hardcore/elite-ist players who want everything to be near-impossible.

Considering we have around 5 or 6 elite zones throughtout 3 campaigns, I dont see a need for it.

It also seems a badly thought out way to try and get people to play old campaigns again (assuming they add this to old campaigns). Instead of adding new content, they simple add a hardmode button.

In my view once hardmode is introduced....

You'l end up with every mission area packed with lvl20 players (with protector), forming PUGs to do nothing except the hardmodes.

The newbie players who will want experienced players to help them will be stuffed. This idea of helping new players wont happen anymore, because newbie and experienced players will get segregated.

The bit which I see as badly thought out, is hardmode missions will be in low-end areas (I assume). They way its described, is that you will return to an easier mission, select hardmode and then it will be harder.

The problem with this, is that any newbie players in that low-end area wont get help from experienced players. The experienced players wont want to know. Theyl be busy forming PUGs for hardmode.

It will murge low-end areas with elite areas, and it wont work well. Its works having places like FOW, UW, DOA because only experienced players go there to form PUGs.

But with this hardmode in place, you will have experienced players and newbies both trying to form PUGs, and neither will want to join one another because they will want different things.

It will also further incourage this idea of elitism in PUGs. This idea that you cant join a group unless you have cookie cut build. Unless you use this set skill bar the way I say so, you cant join.

Missions areas will be spammed with "LFG for hardmode....no noobs!!"

And "LFG for normal mode.... please someone, anyone!!!"

As I said, I dont think its a bad idea.

I just feel its ill-thought out and it will have too much of a knock-on effect for the less experienced players.

We just dont need it when we have 5 or 6 elite zones throughout each area. Elite zones which will also suffer as less people play them to do the hardmode missions.

Look at SF. Its virtually dead there now. The more elite or hard areas we add, then less interested people have in the older areas.

We need to limit how many elite or hard areas we have, to maintain interest in them.

But thats just my view. I could be complete wrong about the hardmode as its all speculation at this point. It might work out fine and be great. Anet does a good job 90% of the time.

Thoughts?

lyra_song · Feb 28, 2007, 03:37 PM // 15:37

And what different would it be from players who want Masters or Mish/Bonus VS those who only want to pass through?

TheRaven · Feb 28, 2007, 03:41 PM // 15:41

i think hard mode is great concept. Don't start criticizing it until we know what it will be.

Esprit · Feb 28, 2007, 03:43 PM // 15:43

Elite missions from Cantha and Nightfall appear to me as a grind-fest, slogging through 2-4 hours of extremely high-leveled enemies, with a specific cookie cutter build. That's boring. UW and FoW are pretty cut and dry too with what you need to do.

I am looking forward to hard mode because I am hoping for a challenge in regular missions, where scenery is not the same for 2-4 hours straight and that any profession can play.

Res Ipsi · Feb 28, 2007, 03:48 PM // 15:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRaven

i think hard mode is great concept. Don't start criticizing it until we know what it will be.

Agreed. For all we know, Hard Mode may require 3 Protector of XXX helping 5 low level/inexperienced puggers through these missions

Tromador · Feb 28, 2007, 03:59 PM // 15:59

So long as Guardian doesn't bump off protector and wreck my KoaBD I don't care. I'll still be doing normal level as well as giving hard level a go.

Bryant Again · Feb 28, 2007, 04:03 PM // 16:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esprit

I am looking forward to hard mode because I am hoping for a challenge in regular missions, where scenery is not the same for 2-4 hours straight and that any profession can play.

That's what I'm hoping for, challenging not in the sense of exploited AI, but a place where there is actually strategy and a lot of versatility, and where any profession could fit in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

And what different would it be from players who want Masters or Mish/Bonus VS those who only want to pass through?

Hit the nail.

Razorwood · Feb 28, 2007, 04:12 PM // 16:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Res Ipsi

Agreed. For all we know, Hard Mode may require 3 Protector of XXX helping 5 low level/inexperienced puggers through these missions

Then all you'd see is

"LFP of lowbies so I can enter hard mode later"

Iscana · Feb 28, 2007, 04:18 PM // 16:18

Actually I think you're right freekedoutfish. Hard-mode could be a challenge for the older GW players, but I think it could have a side effect as well. As I see now sometimes mission outposts being filled with people who want bonus only, and well mostly they take beginners with them just to act nice. But what happens if we have hard-mode and those beginners can't come with them anymore? I think you will get a HA idea, "You need a rank" In this case the title "protector" to join in a team. :/

Personally for me it would be an nice challenge if there was an hard-mode, but I actually don't need it I like the bonuses already and a hard-mode would be a nice idea but not a need for me since I think it could have indeed that bad side effect as you have written down. But who knows, maybe the hard-mode will be made that way that it might even become better for those beginners.

I think a nice addition to hard-mode would be, getting low level players towads the end of mission + bonus without being left at spawn in a enviroment filled wit 20lvl enemies. In this case the low lvl people do there mission and bonus, and the elites have a challenge and actually help.

Sarevok Thordin · Feb 28, 2007, 04:25 PM // 16:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

And what different would it be from players who want Masters or Mish/Bonus VS those who only want to pass through?

you got no idea how many bonus whiners I've wanted to STRANGLE.......

Evilsod · Feb 28, 2007, 04:32 PM // 16:32

I can't see it been any different to what it is now...

You'll get groups forming who want Hard Mode. You'll still get groups forming who want Masters as oppose to just coasting through it.

Also how does high levels going to Ascalon matter? High levels going to Ascalon only ever did it for the Bonus, now they'll do it for Hard Mode. Just becuase you won't get low levels mooching off the high level who can practically solo the entire mission isn't much of a reason to speculate.

As for Gate of Madness Hard Mode. Aslong as i can still solo Shiro, i don't care

freekedoutfish · Feb 28, 2007, 04:37 PM // 16:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

And what different would it be from players who want Masters or Mish/Bonus VS those who only want to pass through?

Because the hardmode is presumably only do-able by lvl20, experienced, players who have protector. It suggests the hardmode is going to very hard, otherwise anyone could to them.

Normal, masters and bonus missions are attainable by lower-experienced players and intended to suit the difficulty of the area.

Low-end area = easier missions.
High-end area = hard missions.

But hardmode = constantly hard missiosn designed for lvl20 etc etc etc.

The result is we end up with players in low-end areas spamming for "hardmode PUGs", while the less-experienced players cant form parties.

But as I said. Its all speculation and i could all be fine.

MSecorsky · Feb 28, 2007, 04:45 PM // 16:45

Let's hope "hard mode" means "hard for cookie cutter groups to succeed without including other classes".

It will be incredibly disappointing if hard mode reinforces the "cookie cutter" mentality that's currently prevalent in the harder mission areas.

Sophitia Leafblade · Feb 28, 2007, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

That's what I'm hoping for, challenging not in the sense of exploited AI, but a place where there is actually strategy and a lot of versatility, and where any profession could fit in.

Lol like thats going to happen Hard mode will end up just like most things hard in GW, dominated by certain builds. So it will probably go back to the time honored Tank, Nuke, Healer and MM.

Some Tryia missions suffer from taking ages to complete Hard mode would make this worse, Cantha Masters are generally very time specific which means changes to the difficulty must allow the time frames to be changed.

Not to mention missions already considered hard by some in hard mode would probably far exceed DoA in difficulty eg. Thunderhead Keep, Raisu Pavilion, Gate of Madness etc. etc.

I imagine too the Henchies would be extremely useless in Hard mode and possible heroes too. Which brings us back to PUGs.

Perhaps the only change to make Hard mode will be to disallow Heroes/Henchies so people would have to PUG taht makes missions hard enough on its own

I think Anet had a good idea with Hard mode but i dont think they will be able to pull off something that will be Fun AND challenging. But heres hoping *fingers crossed*

MSecorsky · Feb 28, 2007, 04:52 PM // 16:52

Maybe Hard Mode monsters will have a new skill set... such as a ranged blackout or a "Turn on your Master" skill (all minions turn on their master for 'n' seconds, then are un-mastered after that).

That would be ... interesting...

fang273 · Feb 28, 2007, 04:58 PM // 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

Because the hardmode is presumably only do-able by lvl20, experienced, players who have protector. It suggests the hardmode is going to very hard, otherwise anyone could to them.

Normal, masters and bonus missions are attainable by lower-experienced players and intended to suit the difficulty of the area.

Low-end area = easier missions.
High-end area = hard missions.

But hardmode = constantly hard missiosn designed for lvl20 etc etc etc.

The result is we end up with players in low-end areas spamming for "hardmode PUGs", while the less-experienced players cant form parties.

But as I said. Its all speculation and i could all be fine.

Why wouldn't they be able to form parties? Since you probably will need protector for hard mode, their will still be people from other campaigns and lower levels to make the normal mission group with, just as there are now.
But there will also be more level 20's that form hard mode groups.

Sophitia Leafblade · Feb 28, 2007, 04:58 PM // 16:58

Im hoping that Anet restores Elites to the earlier Areas in the Hard mode missions such as the Charr using Hundred Blades etc. but Knowing Anet they will Add a new monster Skill to the Mursaat called Squish "Target enemy Dies, if that target is infused that target only losses 99% hp" hehe

BenjZee · Feb 28, 2007, 05:43 PM // 17:43

hard mode does sonud interesting though...
about what you said about low levels, we alreasy get this. Many people that are lvl 20 go back through prophecies and theres plenty of low levels that would want help

Kakumei · Feb 28, 2007, 05:45 PM // 17:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

Considering we have around 5 or 6 elite zones throughtout 3 campaigns, I dont see a need for it.

Considering we only have five or six, yes, we definitely need more high-end areas.

darktyco · Feb 28, 2007, 05:48 PM // 17:48

I hope you don't have to have Protector to enable Hard-Mode...

I only usually get Protector on the first character I run through a campaign, it would be drudgery to have to get the title on all of them just to try some of the hard missions under different roles.